Metaish: Hanging out on the gangplank of ship Dean/Castiel

[errant_jane]

Here's the drabble I did at work today:

The day Castiel meets Dean, he feels doubt for the first time. It's Dean's despair at the thought that God might actually exist that cuts through him. For most people, it is comfort. For Dean, it throws everything he knows into question, that God would let people suffer so, that God would want Dean out of hell.

His doubt triggers Castiel's, sharp and unexpected.

But it's not Dean's doubt that breaks him. After that, he fortified himself against it. It is the moment he realizes Dean trusted him. Castiel never had any hope of defending himself against Dean Winchester's faith.

***

Which led to my musings about why I want to, but can't quite hop fully onboard the Dean/Castiel ship. (Which is not to say I'm opposed to it. I fully acknowledge that these are my own issues and I'm certainly not trying to derail anyone else's enjoyment of the ship. Cool?)

It's mired in several layers of crazy, JSYK. Setting aside the whole porn issue, I am an OTPer at heart in that way that I love epic creepy obsessive pairings (See: Clark/Lex). And the thing is, Dean/Castiel is epic enough, but it seems fairly one-sided on Castiel's part. Rather, I have a much clearer picture of how Castiel feels about Dean than how Dean feels about Castiel. Dean's feelings on that remain rather murky in my head. Because Dean is still wholly devoted to Sam. Which brings me back to my OTP issues, because in order to ship them, I want Dean's feelings to be on (or at least near) the same level and I just don't think they are.

Not yet, anyway, and I will be interested to see the fallout of everything that went down in Lucifer Rising. I don't think at the point where we left Dean that he would know the first thing to do with the devotion of which Castiel is capable. Castiel is built for faith and following and I don't know that Dean has considered the ramifications of that beyond, "How can I use this to help Sam?" Which makes Dean sound usery. I don't necessarily mean it like that.

Castiel falls into an interesting slot in Dean's world. He is someone Dean doesn't need to protect, nor necessarily respect. In a weird way, Dean interacts with Castiel as something of an equal (sort of a, "Shh, Sam, the grown-ups are talking now and here's what we've decided"). The hubris of this is somewhat amusing, all things considered. Dean not only questions Castiel, but in some cases acts as though Castiel is accountable to him. He doesn't quite forget that Castiel might have his own agenda, but at the same time, he truly believes that Castiel is on his side. It's a weird sort of faith Dean has in Castiel, but it is, or has been to this point, based around keeping Sam safe.

Castiel is the brother-in-arms that Dean wants Sam to be (but often prevents Sam from being). WRT Sam, it is something akin to a more fucked-up version of Buffy re: Dawn in The Gift:

Giles: "If the ritual starts then every living creature in this and every other dimension imaginable will suffer unbearable torment and death... including Dawn."
Buffy: "Then the last thing she'll see is me protecting her."

Dean is like that, but without the benefit of any semblance of the support system Buffy had. Castiel is Dean's first taste of having a Scooby. He doesn't know what to do with that, yet. Doesn't know how to reconcile what Castiel is and what he represents with the rest of his world. But Castiel has the potential to be something Dean has never had before, if Dean can get over himself enough to realize it. Dean has some issues.

I think I have hit rambling now, so I'll wrap it up.

In conclusion: I think Castiel is in love with Dean in an epic way. I reserve judgment on where Dean stands until we see how some of the stuff in S5 plays out (I AM SPOILER FREE!). I support Dean/Castiel in email in theory, I just can't get it to play out the right way in my head. If that makes sense. If it doesn't, that's okay, too.

In the meantime, I'll be over here playing with Misha. (Heh. Dirty.)

Comments

[kriari.livejournal.com]

OMFG HOW CAN YOU SAY SUCH THINGS!!!!!

THEIR LOVEISSOEPIC! IT TRANSCENDS THE STARS AND FUCKING CARE BEARS!

Okay. I can't even troll properly. We both know where I stand on this issue. On the dock, scuffing the toes of my shoes against the wet splintering wood, looking longingly up at freaking awesome yacht and wondering if I'm really ready to take that cruise.

And by that I mean, I'm done for.

Because the inequities are what entrance me. The act of bridging and closing gaps as much as they can be closed. And then when you've almost got everything laced up tight and perfect the ribbon starts to fray and an eyelet starts to bulge and then the whole thing just falls sort of cockeyed and imperfect but still beautiful in it's disheveled way.

That's Cas and Dean to me. The inevitable, unavoidable push and pull where they are never quite in the same place at the same time. Except for teeny moments that make it worth it. I just...yeah.

I'll stop stealing your meta now.

FTWDUDE DEANANDCAS4EVA!!!! (I mean this with the utmost sincerity. I do.)

[errant-jane.livejournal.com]

DIAF HOAR!! QUIT TRYING TO OPPRESS ME!!!

ALSO SO'S YOUR FACE!!

Because the inequities are what entrance me.

See, I'm just too much of a silly romantic. I want Dean to be as obsessed with Castiel as Castiel is with him. IDEFK, dude. I have weird fic issues.

[missyjack.livejournal.com]

I think you are spot on in what dean wants Castiel to be. of course the kciker in S4 is time adn time again Castiel keeps screwing Dean over. His love may be epic, but he's a good soldier angel first and foremost. of course everytime he disobeys its prompted by his BIG GAY ANGEL LOVE for Deano.

Thing is, i'll be inetrested to see what happens in S5, coz I don't think dean wants, or more precisely, would know how to deal with some uncomplicated love and adoration. I think what he lvoes so mcuh in Sammy is when Sam argues with him, and pushes him. I think eh sees that Sam pushes him into being a better person. I don't think he is ready for someone to accept him as he is. /rambling

*grins* we are going to have some epic meta rambling convos at Wincon! I can't wait!

also - MISHA is always dirty.

[errant-jane.livejournal.com]

of course everytime he disobeys its prompted by his BIG GAY ANGEL LOVE for Deano.

THIS!!! Because RIGHT? Is there a non-slashy way to interpret that? I mean, he pretty much explicitly states, "So, the other angels are watching me now because of my feelings for you..."

I don't think dean wants, or more precisely, would know how to deal with some uncomplicated love and adoration.

Exactly. Dean is not wired for that at all. Which could create all sorts of delicious angst, except he's not even ready for it on a normal person level, let alone angelic devotion. Also, Castiel is, well, awkward about the whole thing, which doesn't help.

I think what he loves so much in Sammy is when Sam argues with him and pushes him. I think he sees that Sam pushes him into being a better person. I don't think he is ready for someone to accept him as he is.

Yes! I think he even goes so far as to push Sam away in those times when Sam tries to accept him. Dean has issues.

*grins* we are going to have some epic meta rambling convos at Wincon! I can't wait!

OMFGINORITE? I'm so excited!!! I need to buy my plane tickets...

also - MISHA is always dirty.

Bless him for that. It's what makes him so much fun.

[serialkarma.livejournal.com]

In conclusion: I think Castiel is in love with Dean in an epic way. I reserve judgment on where Dean stands until we see how some of the stuff in S5 plays out

See, I totally agree with you on this. However, I have no problem shipping Dean/Castiel, despite this, because it's hot and I am shallow.

That being said, I think one of the things I actually really like about Dean/Castiel is the way that relationship can act as both a counterpoint and a complement to Dean's relationship with Sam. Also, the fact that Sam is pretty much always going to be number one in Dean's book gives the Dean/Cas relationship a nice touch of angst and tragedy that I admit I kind of masochistically love.

[errant-jane.livejournal.com]

However, I have no problem shipping Dean/Castiel, despite this, because it's hot and I am shallow.

This is both a fair and valid argument. And I'm not opposed to reading the fic. But it tends to be hit or miss with me.

Also, the fact that Sam is pretty much always going to be number one in Dean's book gives the Dean/Cas relationship a nice touch of angst and tragedy that I admit I kind of masochistically love.

See, this is my issue. I'm a fan of the angst, but the tragedy makes me sad (also, water is wet). Because, yeah, Dean will never pick anyone over Sam. It's too much a part of who he is. *sighs*

They are so slashy onscreen it's almost unbearable. I want to! I really do!!

[dmlpacker.livejournal.com]

*really pouty pout* First you give me an amazing drabble excerpt...then you list the reasons why you don't ship D/C. THAT'S SO EVIL. *sputters*

But yes, I see your point(s)...and choose to close my eyes. Dean&Castiel are my (normally) feel-good pairing. :)

[errant-jane.livejournal.com]

I want to ship them! I do!! I'm trying? I just have issues to work through...

But yes, I see your point(s)...and choose to close my eyes. Dean&Castiel are my (normally) feel-good pairing. :)

Hee! Squeeze your eyes tight!! I don't want to harsh on anyone's ship buzz. I think Jensen/Misha is my feel-good pairing at the moment. Or maybe Misha is just my feel-good everything. He is full of LOLZ.

[minim_calibre]

I think I agree with all that, which may explain why I keep failing to seek out Dean/Castiel. Huh.

[errant-jane.livejournal.com]

It's weird, because I find their on-screen dynamic ridiculously hot. I just can't quite get it to translate to fic. Hence all the RPS, I guess.

What's a girl to do?

[fish-echo.livejournal.com]

*nods*

This makes sense.

Part of my issues with Dean/Castiel is the whole 'in my mind, angels are sexless beings' aspect. I have difficulties with Dean/Sam because the sibling incest kinda weirds me out (I still read some Dean/Sam stories because I have long been known for sacrificing a dislike if a story has sufficient 'likes' to make me start it. And once I start something I often will finish it), but I have difficulty seeing Dean in a long-term romantic relationship with someone because of the depth of the Dean&Sam-- as you say, it would have to be someone that he cares about at least on par with the level he cares about Sam, and that's just damn difficult when you are fighting supernatural critters, averting the apocalypse and traveling around constantly.

Oh, and there was one Dean/Castiel fic I actually really really liked, by trinityofone, would you like a link?

Sorry for the rambling.

[errant-jane.livejournal.com]

I have difficulties with Dean/Sam because the sibling incest kinda weirds me out (I still read some Dean/Sam stories because I have long been known for sacrificing a dislike if a story has sufficient 'likes' to make me start it. And once I start something I often will finish it)

For me, it has to be justified and really shown as fucked-up as it is. But, really, I've read a lot of gen in this fandom that reads like angstporn because Sam and Dean are so that even if they're not, y'know, that that. Y'know?

Oh, and there was one Dean/Castiel fic I actually really really liked, by trinityofone, would you like a link?

Yes, please! I have read some that I like, for sure. I'm just having some problems really getting into the pairing. Onscreen, I think they're intense and hot like burning. GUH!

Sorry for the rambling.

Pfft. Don't be ridiculous!

[thevinegarworks.livejournal.com]

I would absolutely love to write pages and pages upon more pages, with a generous heaping of pages on top (and maybe some sprinkles too), listing all the reasons why Dean/Cas is an awesome pairing. Unfortunately I am very zombified by final exams right now and I would probably end up being detrimental to my own argument by trying to structure a sentence and ending up sounding like a completely dumbass. Sooooo yeah.

But I will say this: I think one of my favorite aspects, and one of the reasons why it's so easy for me to ship Dean/Cas (srsly, it's easier than breathing), is that Dean has never really had someone he can call a true friend before. He's never had someone like Cas. In viewing Dean's life, we have to take a huge step back and realize that he wasn't raised in a normal household - he didn't have friends from school growing up, like most people. He had his dad bossing him around like a slavedriver, and Sam, whom he had to practically raise as his own son due to John's constant absence. The only other constants in Dean's life are Bobby, who is more of an inheritance than Dean's own friend (he was John's friend first, and they only really grew close after John's death, etc. - not to knock on Bobby because, hello, HE'S BOBBY, THE QUINTESSENTIAL GQMF, but I digress), and the Impala, who... well, she doesn't really apply to this conversation.

Then Cas comes along, and Dean's got someone who he's on even-keel with. He's got somebody who's willing to make huge sacrifices for him simply because Cas has so much faith in him, and Dean doesn't even have to do anything in return to earn that faith - Cas always has that resilient faith in him, no matter what. And for Dean, who was raised like a soldier with a constant mantra of "never good enough" from dear ol' Dad, that's gotta be refreshing. And also staggering.

With Sam, Dean has always had to (and always will, even if it's unwarranted) play the role of "protector" - the big brother, the one who's always got to watch his little brother's back. But with Cas, he doesn't have to do that. He doesn't have to put on any masks or fronts - he can be himself and express his concerns freely, without the armor of a predetermined role.

...Shit, there was like way more I was going to say here, but I literally just COMPLETELY FORGOT mid-sentence.

Fuck you too, finals. Fuck you too. >.<

But hey, diversity is what makes us interesting after all. To each his own; not everyone can get behind the same ships, though GOD WHY AND HOW THE HELL CAN YOU DENY DEAN/CAS?! and I respect the fact that you're "trying." I think maybe you just need some quality convincing, hmmm? ;)

But hey, in the meantime, you've got the crackgod that is Misha to tide you over. \o/

[errant-jane.livejournal.com]

I do not deny any of these arguments, bb. I agree 100%. It is really just my crazy OTP issues more than anything else. Which is, I want crazy OTP devotion and I don't think that Dean would choose Castiel over Sam. I don't even want him to, because, Dean. Srsly. It is crazycakes OTP issues.

though GOD WHY AND HOW THE HELL CAN YOU DENY DEAN/CAS?!

I DON'T DENY THEM!! Onscreen, I think they are the hottest fucking thing since Spike/Buffy (which, uh, I thought was really hot). HOT LIKE BURNING. I've even written it. Sort of...

and I respect the fact that you're "trying." I think maybe you just need some quality convincing, hmmm? ;)

This is entirely possible. I'm open to convincing. I was just saying to KK that maybe my hang-up is simply that I haven't read the right fics that deal with the Sam factor. IDK. I may have gotten distracted by Misha before I delved too far...

[kriari.livejournal.com]

Man I am butting in like a freaking butting thing. *hands*

Then Cas comes along, and Dean's got someone who he's on even-keel with. He's got somebody who's willing to make huge sacrifices for him simply because Cas has so much faith in him, and Dean doesn't even have to do anything in return to earn that faith - Cas always has that resilient faith in him, no matter what. And for Dean, who was raised like a soldier with a constant mantra of "never good enough" from dear ol' Dad, that's gotta be refreshing. And also staggering.

I CONCUR. However, and this is just me, because I was raised like Dean minus the blood and salt and weapons training. I still deal with that shit, which is also why Dean gets right under my fucking skin the way he does...

Anywho, and this is neither here nor there with regards to Dean/Castiel, more just inappropriate sharing and caring time on my part, but here's the thing. I still, after five years together and nearly two years of marriage, wonder on a daily basis WTF hubby sees in me to have such a complete and encompassing faith and love. What makes him want to be with a wrecked pile of mostly mediocre like me. And my damage is not even as great as Dean's damage. Still, I think that Castiel's devotion scares the mother-fucking shit out of him and completely blindsides him in a way that he can't wrap his head around. Because he is NOT worthy of it and can never hope to be.(In his head anyway)I seriously think he may believe Sam loves and trusts him because he has to. But again, that may be how my padre twisted me talking.

[thevinegarworks.livejournal.com]

OH WAIT I REMEMBER MOAR:

Looking at things from Cas' POV too - because you can't just completely discount his in favor of Dean's - he's been alive for thousands. Of. Years. Possibly more, who knows? Yet he's never even been tempted to turn his back on his family/faith/etc, until in a few short Dean has him so turned around and tangled up he doesn't know which way is up. He literally gives the finger to his superiors, his family, and his faith (to an extent) because he believes in Dean so hardcore that he would readily die just for the sake of being worth something in Dean's eyes.

That is powerful.

...okay now I'm done, I promise.

/SPAM

[errant-jane.livejournal.com]

Oh, I am 100% that Cas is wholly crazy in love with Dean. I would even argue that it's canon. I don't even know how else you would interpret things from Castiel's perspective. That whole aspect I find crazy hot and compelling. No doubt about it. Castiel has a unicorn diary where he writes "Cas + Dean" over and over in sparkly purple pen. THAT'S JUST TRUEFAX!!

[qwertypoiuq.livejournal.com]

I TOTALLY CONCUR WITH ALMOST ALL OF THIS. Which is probably why I too have trouble actually MAKING FIC with them as much as I really, really want to. Plus Cas is HARD (teehee).

But luckily I am shallow enough that at least as far as enjoying what other folks have written, I can switch off the part of my brain that's all SAM WILL ALWAYS COME FIRST WITH DEAN (because that hurts my little Dean/Cas heart but I'm sure will always be true, regardless of how much of a douche I think Sam's been this past year) and just imagine in an ideal world that Dean believes himself worthy of Cas' affection and also finally realizes that he's entitled to have things that are ONLY HIS and exist independent of Sam. Because Cas is totally the first thing Dean's ever had that's JUST DEAN'S, and I want him to realize that and for the possessive sex to begin accept that Cas isn't going to abandon him or betray him like everyone else has. And canon better support me on this, otherwise Kripke and I are going to have WORDS.

But please, continue playing with Misha, 'cause that works VERY WELL for me too.

[errant-jane.livejournal.com]

I TOTALLY CONCUR WITH ALMOST ALL OF THIS. Which is probably why I too have trouble actually MAKING FIC with them as much as I really, really want to.

That is because you are AWESOME and RIGHT-THINKING. Clearly. ;D

Plus Cas is HARD (teehee).

Hee!!

But luckily I am shallow enough that at least as far as enjoying what other folks have written, I can switch off the part of my brain that's all SAM WILL ALWAYS COME FIRST WITH DEAN (because that hurts my little Dean/Cas heart but I'm sure will always be true, regardless of how much of a douche I think Sam's been this past year) and just imagine in an ideal world that Dean believes himself worthy of Cas' affection and also finally realizes that he's entitled to have things that are ONLY HIS and exist independent of Sam.

*nods* This is what I'm saying. I want for Dean to be all "OMG, Cas!!" But I can't get past the part that's always going to be all, "As long as Sammy's okay..."

Because Cas is totally the first thing Dean's ever had that's JUST DEAN'S, and I want him to realize that and for the possessive sex to begin accept that Cas isn't going to abandon him or betray him like everyone else has. And canon better support me on this, otherwise Kripke and I are going to have WORDS.

You had me at "possessive sex". Wot? I, too, am shallow.

But please, continue playing with Misha, 'cause that works VERY WELL for me too.

I don't think I could put him down if I tried! I'm lucky I write any non-RPS at all!!

[shirozora.livejournal.com]

So, um, you kind of did highlight the reasons why I fell so hard for these guys (as in 10 months before I even got into watching the show, never mind jumping into fandom). It's so twisted and complicated and can be this way or that way. It can be entirely platonic, sickeningly manipulative, aggressively porny, and/or completely fucked over (no thanks to the Apocalypse, God perhaps, the fucking archangels, Lucifer, Sam).

They have the weirdest yet most enticing and appealing chemistry that I've ever seen in a TV show, ngl. And I'm a sucker for relationships that go way beyond skin deep, I love playing with relationships that have some serious issues to begin with (like, idk, it's Jimmy's body? Also, hello? Angel of the fucking Lord?)

But it's also hard to argue with the eye!sex you get on the screen.

[errant-jane.livejournal.com]

I do appreciate the eyesex, if nothing else. Onscreen they are hot like whoa.

I am completely a fan of the complicated relationships, I just. Hmmm. Have to work it through in my mind, I guess. I remember saying to my roommate, like, one or two episodes in to the new season that I was a fan of them, but I think it'd have to be handled just so, y'know?

On the shallow end, Boys! So pretty!! Nom Nom NOM!!!

[regicidaldwarf.livejournal.com]

This. No, honestly, I've been thinking for awhile now that I ship Jensen/Misha harder than I do Dean/Castiel, but was really hard pressed to think of why exactly. This is why. Because Castiel is in love with Dean, but while Dean is attracted to him, he has no idea what to do with that.

[errant-jane.livejournal.com]

*nods* My other problem, which I didn't even begin to address, is that I have trouble with the porn aspect of Dean/Castiel. Because I am ridiculously romantic, I feel like Castiel's love is so far beyond that...*shrugs* Again, it's really my own ridiculous issues. I'm a fan of them in theory?

They are, if nothing else, ridiculously slashy.

[ethrosdemon.livejournal.com]

HELLO I AM HERE TO FUCK WITH YOU.

I don't think Dean is FULLY devoted to Sam anymore. I think that was what this entire season was about. Dean is really freaking annoyed with Sam and pissed off. There's a deep, deep fracture there. Does Dean still love Sam with all his heart? Yes. Would Dean at this point go to hell for Sam? Yeah, i don't think so.

This is SO WEIRD /James T Kirk but I do NOT see Dean as negotiating Castiel wrt to how Castiel can help Sam. I see him as being kind of !!! THE FUCK???? about Castiel and OH GOD WHAT DO I HAVE TO PUT UP WITH NOOOOOOOOOW? about him.

Idk I think people are in deep denial about how FUBAR S/D have gone at this point. I think that's y'all's insane OTPing and crap. It's cute in a way, but it's also deranged. Dean very simply does not trust Sam anymore--that's a big ass deal.

[errant-jane.livejournal.com]

FUCKING FUCK! I just typed this big long reply and then accidentally hit the back button. BOO!!

Not going to do it again. Blah blah blah, actually not about OTP issues. Also, I think Dean would go to hell for Sam again. In a heartbeat.

I would also argue that Dean has never fully trusted Sam. His protective instincts for Sam preclude a certain, very fundamental, level of trust. It is a BFD, but I don't think it takes away from his devotion at all.

[alesca-munroe.livejournal.com]

^^ Very nice expression of thought here.

Also: "Shh, Sam, the grown-ups are talking now and here's what we've decided"
That's just cute.

With regard to just Castiel and Dean in general, this one song lyric always pops into my head, especially after Castiel comes back from being taken back to Heaven: I'll take my heart and rip my feelings out before they make me doubt. _{If I had watched more of SPN I would definitely use it for a prompt, but alas}

[errant-jane.livejournal.com]

Aw, thank you!! I'm glad you liked it.

[addisongrey.livejournal.com]

Hmm just read this and considering that it's Post-S5, has your opinion changed? ^_~