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errant_janeSome thoughts on 5x01
Note: Subject line and cuttag are indicative of nothing but the fact that I was listening to the Killers this morning.
Let's talk Sympathy for the Devil!!
The Sam and Dean Show (I think I will have to do a whole separate post called, "And then some other stuff happened...")
I was commenting last night to someone (maybe multiple someones, IDEK, it's all a blur at this point...) that Sympathy for the Devil reminded me of why I love Sam so hard. It only occurred to me after I went to bed that last night's episode was, perhaps, the first we've seen that shows the full scope of influence that Ruby had over Sam.
Because Sam was there in this episode, back 100% in his full-on PUPPYFACE-OF-DOOM glory. He was there in a way that was completely absent last season. And the thing is, Sam was sympathetic last season. They did an excellent job of showing that every step he took was one he felt he had to take.
He was sympathetic, but removed. Sam wasn't accessible last season and now he's back. Fully present for the first time since, when? Since Dean died? Before that? Since Dean made his deal and Ruby showed up on the scene?
Which is what made their end scene so thoroughly wrecking. Because that Sam was the "I'm afraid of what I might become" Sam and in the past, he's always been met with, "I will make everything okay" Dean. And this time, instead of responding according to their pattern, Dean shut him down. Nearly irrevocably.
In retrospect, it speaks volumes about how much faith Sam placed in Dean's "everything will be alright" shtick. Because there were many times, as Sam found out more and more about what he was capable of, that it was the only thing he had to cling to. That Dean would make it alright. So when Dean made his deal, when Dean died and Sam couldn't save him, couldn't bring him back and Ruby came trotting along? That game was over before Dean ever came back from hell. Because Ruby played a damn fine game (not to mention the fact that angels were working against him as well) and Sam had no defenses left.
Because Dean was no longer around to fix things, no matter that he never actually could.
The other part of that is that Dean has always been the more black and white of the two. And Sam knows it. So I think on some level he's been waiting for this shoe to drop for awhile. He knew going into the events up through Lucifer Rising that there was no coming back, but thinking that the trade-off was him saving the world and making up for Dean going to hell.
Instead he lost everything all over again.
Which brings us to Dean's trust issues. I call bullshit on his line about not trusting Sam anymore*, because Dean never trusted Sam. Not in any fundamental way that would make a difference. Which is why things went down the way they did last season. Dean did not "try", he treated Sam like a little kid and told him he was wrong.
I'm not saying that Dean didn't have his reasons for not being overly understanding. Forty years in hell will mess with you and Dean was never all that functional to begin with. The thing is, just because Dean was right doesn't mean that he had the moral high ground. He did not handle Sam well. At all. Because Dean never trusted him enough to try.
Dean has a pretty well-established history of sweeping things under the rug and pretending everything is Okay! He's pretty good at repressing a whole lot (or trying to, anyway) and what Sam needed more than anything was for someone to try and understand him. It's how Ruby got in so deep and maybe if Dean had tried just a little instead of his flat-out condemnation, things might have played out differently. Then again, maybe not. (See: forces of Heaven and Hell working against them)
That being said, the large part of Dean's speech wasn't about Sam at all. Zachariah summed it up pretty tidily with his, "You had the chance to save your brother and you couldn't." Story of Dean's life much?
Everything about their interaction was shaded with Dean's failure to accomplish the one fucking thing he was supposed to do with his life: protect Sam. Dean (in his mind) failed over and over again with that. He couldn't keep Sam safe, he couldn't let him go and he couldn't pull him back from the dark side. And then they're suddenly zapped to Winchesters on a mother-fuckin’ plane and Sam is miraculously free of his demon-blood-junkie shakes. Which is just one more thing Dean couldn't do right.
Sam is Dean's living, breathing, epic failure and Dean's self-loathing is maxed out. It has nowhere to go but on Sam, who was Clearly Wrong in the sort of dichotomy that Dean can reconcile with his worldview and Dean Told Him So, after all.
Sam choosing Ruby over Dean reinforced every negative thing that Dean has ever believed about himself. That he is not good enough, not worthy enough. Not anything enough. Undeserving. With that sort of resonance, there's absolutely no way that he could see Sam's alliance with Ruby as anything but betrayal rather than a severely misguided attempt to rectify a horrible situation gone as wrong as it can go.
They've been at cross purposes for quite some time now.
And even though Sam was Wrong, he wasn't quite. Because Dean wasn't strong enough. He not only wasn't strong enough to stop it, he wasn't strong enough to keep it from starting in the first place. IIRC, Dean hasn't shared with either Sam or Bobby that he's the one who broke the first seal. When Sam confessed what he'd done to Bobby, Dean was as invested as Sam in that answer. His sins are, after all, just as great.
That Bobby's condemnation didn't ping either of the boys as off shows how much they are both waiting to be called out. How much they are craving someone to tell them that they're past that point. That they are irrevocably damned.
Dean's forgiveness of Sam hinges on being able to forgive himself and Dean still doesn't believe he deserves it. On a fundamental level. Dean didn't tell Sam or Bobby about the first seal because he can't handle the idea of being forgiven. It's not a risk he's willing to take.
The difference with Sam is that, while he believes he doesn’t deserve forgiveness, he still wants it.
But no matter what they tell themselves, everything they do to each other affects them just as significantly. They are so intertwined with each other that they are either damned or saved together.
What do you do with that?
Tell the angels to take a flying leap and declare a jihad on both Heaven and Hell, of course.
Sure, why not?
* Halfway through writing this,![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
jay_jay emails me and says: Hmm and upon rewatching. Dean says "I don't think I can trust you." Not "I don't trust you." Thus proving their love will overcome.
There is a reason I love her the most. We're kind of like Sam and Dean in that she doesn't trust me and I can make people barf up demons. No, wait...
Note: Subject line and cuttag are indicative of nothing but the fact that I was listening to the Killers this morning.
Let's talk Sympathy for the Devil!!
The Sam and Dean Show (I think I will have to do a whole separate post called, "And then some other stuff happened...")
I was commenting last night to someone (maybe multiple someones, IDEK, it's all a blur at this point...) that Sympathy for the Devil reminded me of why I love Sam so hard. It only occurred to me after I went to bed that last night's episode was, perhaps, the first we've seen that shows the full scope of influence that Ruby had over Sam.
Because Sam was there in this episode, back 100% in his full-on PUPPYFACE-OF-DOOM glory. He was there in a way that was completely absent last season. And the thing is, Sam was sympathetic last season. They did an excellent job of showing that every step he took was one he felt he had to take.
He was sympathetic, but removed. Sam wasn't accessible last season and now he's back. Fully present for the first time since, when? Since Dean died? Before that? Since Dean made his deal and Ruby showed up on the scene?
Which is what made their end scene so thoroughly wrecking. Because that Sam was the "I'm afraid of what I might become" Sam and in the past, he's always been met with, "I will make everything okay" Dean. And this time, instead of responding according to their pattern, Dean shut him down. Nearly irrevocably.
In retrospect, it speaks volumes about how much faith Sam placed in Dean's "everything will be alright" shtick. Because there were many times, as Sam found out more and more about what he was capable of, that it was the only thing he had to cling to. That Dean would make it alright. So when Dean made his deal, when Dean died and Sam couldn't save him, couldn't bring him back and Ruby came trotting along? That game was over before Dean ever came back from hell. Because Ruby played a damn fine game (not to mention the fact that angels were working against him as well) and Sam had no defenses left.
Because Dean was no longer around to fix things, no matter that he never actually could.
The other part of that is that Dean has always been the more black and white of the two. And Sam knows it. So I think on some level he's been waiting for this shoe to drop for awhile. He knew going into the events up through Lucifer Rising that there was no coming back, but thinking that the trade-off was him saving the world and making up for Dean going to hell.
Instead he lost everything all over again.
Which brings us to Dean's trust issues. I call bullshit on his line about not trusting Sam anymore*, because Dean never trusted Sam. Not in any fundamental way that would make a difference. Which is why things went down the way they did last season. Dean did not "try", he treated Sam like a little kid and told him he was wrong.
I'm not saying that Dean didn't have his reasons for not being overly understanding. Forty years in hell will mess with you and Dean was never all that functional to begin with. The thing is, just because Dean was right doesn't mean that he had the moral high ground. He did not handle Sam well. At all. Because Dean never trusted him enough to try.
Dean has a pretty well-established history of sweeping things under the rug and pretending everything is Okay! He's pretty good at repressing a whole lot (or trying to, anyway) and what Sam needed more than anything was for someone to try and understand him. It's how Ruby got in so deep and maybe if Dean had tried just a little instead of his flat-out condemnation, things might have played out differently. Then again, maybe not. (See: forces of Heaven and Hell working against them)
That being said, the large part of Dean's speech wasn't about Sam at all. Zachariah summed it up pretty tidily with his, "You had the chance to save your brother and you couldn't." Story of Dean's life much?
Everything about their interaction was shaded with Dean's failure to accomplish the one fucking thing he was supposed to do with his life: protect Sam. Dean (in his mind) failed over and over again with that. He couldn't keep Sam safe, he couldn't let him go and he couldn't pull him back from the dark side. And then they're suddenly zapped to Winchesters on a mother-fuckin’ plane and Sam is miraculously free of his demon-blood-junkie shakes. Which is just one more thing Dean couldn't do right.
Sam is Dean's living, breathing, epic failure and Dean's self-loathing is maxed out. It has nowhere to go but on Sam, who was Clearly Wrong in the sort of dichotomy that Dean can reconcile with his worldview and Dean Told Him So, after all.
Sam choosing Ruby over Dean reinforced every negative thing that Dean has ever believed about himself. That he is not good enough, not worthy enough. Not anything enough. Undeserving. With that sort of resonance, there's absolutely no way that he could see Sam's alliance with Ruby as anything but betrayal rather than a severely misguided attempt to rectify a horrible situation gone as wrong as it can go.
They've been at cross purposes for quite some time now.
And even though Sam was Wrong, he wasn't quite. Because Dean wasn't strong enough. He not only wasn't strong enough to stop it, he wasn't strong enough to keep it from starting in the first place. IIRC, Dean hasn't shared with either Sam or Bobby that he's the one who broke the first seal. When Sam confessed what he'd done to Bobby, Dean was as invested as Sam in that answer. His sins are, after all, just as great.
That Bobby's condemnation didn't ping either of the boys as off shows how much they are both waiting to be called out. How much they are craving someone to tell them that they're past that point. That they are irrevocably damned.
Dean's forgiveness of Sam hinges on being able to forgive himself and Dean still doesn't believe he deserves it. On a fundamental level. Dean didn't tell Sam or Bobby about the first seal because he can't handle the idea of being forgiven. It's not a risk he's willing to take.
The difference with Sam is that, while he believes he doesn’t deserve forgiveness, he still wants it.
But no matter what they tell themselves, everything they do to each other affects them just as significantly. They are so intertwined with each other that they are either damned or saved together.
What do you do with that?
Tell the angels to take a flying leap and declare a jihad on both Heaven and Hell, of course.
Sure, why not?
* Halfway through writing this,
jay_jay emails me and says: Hmm and upon rewatching. Dean says "I don't think I can trust you." Not "I don't trust you." Thus proving their love will overcome.There is a reason I love her the most. We're kind of like Sam and Dean in that she doesn't trust me and I can make people barf up demons. No, wait...
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
(no subject)
Date: 2009-09-11 10:27 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2009-09-11 10:28 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2009-09-11 10:29 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2009-09-11 10:30 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2009-09-11 10:33 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2009-09-11 10:44 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2009-09-11 10:28 pm (UTC)First off, WHY is he blaming Sammy SO HARD (other then the betrayal of choosing Ruby, and you gave a very good analysis here of it.) when HE'S THE ONE who started it in the FIRST place. I mean, has he just forgotten that? I mean, I'm a dean gal, but I adore Sam. And I often feel that Sammy gets the short end of the stick. So when you combine the fact that even their allies were batting against them, and Dean hit the first blow...why isn't he cracking about that? Even if he had said: "I may have did my damage, but you...what you did was ten times worse. You knew what we were dealing with." I could have bought that. I could get that...
Okay. I'm gonna go now...maybe write a rant of my own...
(no subject)
Date: 2009-09-11 10:37 pm (UTC)But even when he's placing it all on Sam, it all comes back down on him in his mind anyway. Dean has some issues.
(no subject)
Date: 2009-09-11 10:40 pm (UTC)you were far more eloquent though
(no subject)
Date: 2009-09-11 10:43 pm (UTC)This is what I did today at work.
I really, really love our boys.
(no subject)
Date: 2009-09-12 12:26 am (UTC)You are v. v. smart. (I see that others have said this already, but I feel it bears repeating!)
And even though Sam was Wrong, he wasn't quite. Because Dean wasn't strong enough. He not only wasn't strong enough to stop it, he wasn't strong enough to keep it from starting in the first place. IIRC, Dean hasn't shared with either Sam or Bobby that he's the one who broke the first seal. When Sam confessed what he'd done to Bobby, Dean was as invested as Sam in that answer. His sins are, after all, just as great.
I really really want to see this addressed at some point. And I can't decide if it's going to thrill me or break my heart or both at once.
(no subject)
Date: 2009-09-14 12:34 am (UTC)Thank you!!! I am always okay with being told this! ;)
I really really want to see this addressed at some point. And I can't decide if it's going to thrill me or break my heart or both at once.
I don't see how they can not address it at some point. I'm going with thrilling heartbreak? Delicious, delicious angst that you can eat with a spoon?
(no subject)
Date: 2009-09-14 02:51 am (UTC)I feel like angst would taste like...70% dark chocolate? With cinnamon perhaps?
(no subject)
Date: 2009-09-17 11:28 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2009-09-15 07:27 pm (UTC)This I think is a very accurate assessment of Deans' frame of mind. Messed up as can be, hurting very much all in all and lashing out.
Barf up demons??
(no subject)
Date: 2009-09-17 11:33 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2009-09-20 05:42 pm (UTC)You know, neither John nor Dean ever trusted Sam. Neither one ever believed he could save himself and that he should be trusted with the truth of what had happened when he was a baby and that he was in danger of being influenced by evil. The truly ironic thing is that Sam DID save himself, initially. In Cold Oak he defied the YED. He tried to work with Jake to defeat they YED and break the plan. He died because he refused to play the YED's game and because he got careless, but he did save himself in that episode. Then Dean negates his choice and does it in such a way that Sam is under immense pressure to which he finally caves. Now, I'm not excusing him for caving, but I think we have to remember that initially he did not, not even to save his own life.
(no subject)
Date: 2009-09-20 11:55 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2009-09-21 12:20 am (UTC)