SPN 5x03 Meta: Now you stood your ground…
Sep. 24th, 2009 05:28 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
errant_janeSome thoughts on 5x03
This week I was listening to Ben Nichols' Last Pale Light in the West
Let's talk Free to be You and Me!!
We’ll start with the issues because, tbqh, I have them so rarely with this show. I have faith in a way that I've had with no other show. In Kripke we trust, indeed. That being said:
The “Castiel Gets a Hooker!” storyline just didn’t jive. Not because Dean wouldn’t have taken him to a brothel. Dean would totally take him to a brothel. It’s the “Meep!” reaction that I have an issue with. Really, Show? You’re trying to convince me that “You’d better show me some respect!” Castiel is all, “OH NOES BOOBIEZ!!”? No. Do not collect $200, do not pass go.
It would have worked had the scene been played straighter (heh). Had Castiel been all *eyebrow raise* of “I will indulge you, Dean” and maintained his stoicism throughout while Dean is being smarmy, and then had Chastity have her fit etc. it would have worked just fine. As it was, it just hit all sorts of embarrassment squicks and did Castiel a huge disservice.
And, you know, I get it. I get that it was played for LOLZ and Dean/Castiel fanservice, and while I appreciate both of those things, this wasn’t a comedic episode. Even setting aside Sam’s storyline, Castiel had some really heavy shit laid down on him and the slapstick (including, imo, Castiel’s trying his hand at smack talk) simply didn’t fit with the rest of it.
So, I’m going to chalk that up to a bad call on Show’s (or, maybe Misha’s?) part and move on, because the rest of the episode was Made of Win!!
Castiel:
It ain’t easy for an angle trying to compete with the Winchester angst-off, but Castiel holds his own this episode, complete with a shiny set of daddy issues!! The interaction between Raphael and Castiel was amazingly done. Castiel has gone through a lot and he’s starting to realize just how tough this free will shit is.
The moment that completely sold it was when Raphael mentions Paradise . Castiel’s reaction to that was perfect, the expression of longing and what if? Because that’s what Castiel wants too and the only reason he diverted from the plan was because of Dean, and maybe that was a mistake? What if he had gone along with the original plan? If God is dead/gone/whatever, would they be further along in that goal if Castiel had stuck with Team Angels? Would it already be Paradise on Earth? Would Dean have been more malleable?
God was Castiel’s ace-in-the-hole and if he really is out of the picture, where does that leave him? He’s aligned with neither Heaven nor Hell. Dean is the only person he has to turn to at the moment and, quite frankly, Dean can barely help himself. More on that later.
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missyjack made the comment: God is dead. Raphael - the angry lost child. And that’s a really good summation of him, actually. He played as neither good nor bad, but more an angry, incredibly powerful child. God is gone and the angels are, as much as anything else, hurt and lashing out. If they can’t have God, they want their Paradise and. I have no words for how awesome that spin is.
WRT one more thing, I was talking tokadiel_krieger about the issues we had and while the brothel thing bothered me, the FBI thing didn’t. While Castiel is perfectly capable of subterfuge, he doesn’t find it necessary when dealing with humans. It is wholly believable that he would want to waltz in and be like, “So, dude who saw the archangel, where is he?” Kind of like a really exaggerated version of White Guy Privilege. Why should he bother lying? He is an Angel of the Lord. People should listen to and believe him because of who and what he is. Dean has leeway on this because Dean is Important. Other humans, while important because they are God’s children, are still merely humans. Trying to trick them simply doesn’t fit into Castiel’s worldview.
As far as Lucifer being the one to bring Castiel back, if that were the case, it still leaves the question of who transported Sam and Dean onto the plane. Because Lucifer would have kept them there, taken Sam's body and, I'm guessing, destroyed the shit out of Dean. (I assume he is not unaware of Dean's significance).
So, there’s that. I really enjoy Castiel’s continued explorations of the grey areas of the world and trying to figure out where he actually fits in it. ♥
Dean:
See Dean spend another week Not Dealing in a major way. The gas station scene in Lazarus Rising used to bother me for the fact that Dean is fresh out of hell and he picks up a skin mag. Really? But what we’re seeing now is exactly that played out to its logical extreme.
Dean doesn’t deal. It’s his freaking M.O. He didn’t deal with not dying in Faith, he didn’t deal with Dad dying, with Sam dying, with his impending stint in Hell, with being resurrected. So on and so forth. Dean is quippy Mr. Brightside and Do we really have to talk about it? Here, haz a cock rock!
And the only person to ever come close to making Dean deal, the one who constantly forces the issue(s) and doesn’t let it slide is, for the moment, quite effectively out of the picture. With Sam gone, Dean has his head buried in the sand so far it’s a wonder he can breathe.
I’ve seen more than a few reactions of people being upset that Dean is apparently unfazed by Castiel’s impending death. See: Dean Not Dealing. Here, shippers, haz a fanwank!
Dean is so busy trying to convince himself that everything is A-okay! The problem was Sam and Sam is gone and Dean is Happy and Cheerful and Awesome! Nevermind that the series started with Dean practically begging Sam to join him again. Nevermind that every other time Sam has tried to leave Dean has straight-up called him the world’s most selfish bastard. LALALA CAN’T HEAR YOU!
It’s the end of the world and Dean is… hunting like they always have? That’s his big plan? To just kill shit until evil overwhelms the world and it becomes Hell on Earth. From what we’ve seen, he’s not doing anything else and yet, when Castiel comes to him for help, Dean’s reaction is, “Meh.” Despite the fact that, short of giving it up for Michael, God is their best hope.
Dean? Is Not Dealing. He has taken so many shots of emotional Novocain that he’s at a point where nothing is really registering. Armor is up and in place with no pesky little brother to pick at it, so “I’mna go ahead and be eviscerated tomorrow” is met with, “Wouldn’t it be hilarious to try and get Cas laid?”
Dean: Man, I haven’t laughed like this in ages!
Me: You should check out LOLCats, Dean.
While they may not be exchanging BFF bracelets yet, Dean has shown concern for Castiel multiple times in the past, so his cavalier attitude about Castiel being exploded (again) by archangels is an indication of how really Not Okay he is.
I have to assume that Castiel knows this. Castiel, who knows that Dean thinks he didn’t deserve to be Saved and that Chastity’s daddy ran off. He has to know how Not Okay Dean is without Sam (who Dean was willing to take “as is” over Paradise in Lucifer Rising). I’m interested to see what he’s going to do with this knowledge.
Random thought: It occurs to me that we have not really seen Dean without Sam. I don't really have Thoughts on this at the moment, but I find it interesting.
Sam:
Let’s just go ahead and get the shallow stuff out of the way, in no particular order:
♥ Shirtless!Tattooed!Sam in bed
♥ Shirtless!Tattooed!Sam in bed, really sweet and intimate with Jess (Well, this is part shallow, part “my heart!” as it was both sexy and heartbreaking to see Sam with Jess like that.
♥ Barboy!Sam in a T-shirt
♥ Kung-fu action!Sam, kicking ass and taking names and managing to look all heartbreakingly angsty while doing so…
Okay, actually, I’ll just end the list there, as I could go on like that for awhile, but I do have real thoughts.
It’s interesting how, despite what Lucifer!Jess was saying, Sam is the one really dealing with his shit in this episode. With the options presently open to him, removing himself from the game is the best he can possibly do. Sam’s penance here is not for nothing.
It wasn’t the demon blood Sam was addicted to, but the power it gave him. Like all of the other Super Special Power-Having Kids, once he started it quickly spiraled out of control. Sam is smart enough to realize this, was frank with both Dean and himself at the end of Good God, Y’all about just how much he doesn’t trust himself.
This is different from Sam being afraid of what he might become in the earlier seasons. Sam is afraid because he knows what he might become. He has had a taste of real power and, despite the fact that his intentions were good, it went about as bad as things can go. You don’t get worse than Apocalypse bad. And Sam wants that power back.
So, you have that potential, you know the extent of what you can do. You know you could do more. There is nobody you can trust to keep you in check. You know that as well. All you have is your desire to not become that thing. What do you do with that?
Get a job in a bar because Sam is not an idiot. He is doing daily grind stuff, petty manual labor. He is washing dishes and slicing lemons and serving people. Absofuckinglutely!!! Sam's sin above all else was hubris, so the logical step away from Demonic World Domination is to humble himself as much as he can.
I get Bobby and the other hunters thinking he should join, but really, without any sort of check, without Dean, there’s no short slip for Sam. He slips again and he’s gone. He’s got the mojo and the power of Hell ready to back him up once he caves. We’ve seen Sam hunting without Dean and even the best case scenario of that is pretty dark.
So, yeah. Sam trying to save himself by working in a bar? Pretty fucking brilliant.
If that weren't reason enough to believe that Sam is doing the smart thing, Lucifer spends most of his time trying to convince Sam to get back in the game. Opposite of what Lucifer's wanting = prolly good idea.
So Lucifer ups the ante by being all, “BTW, no way out for you. Not even in death.”
Sam: Just found out I’m Lucifer’s meatsuit. Outlook on getting out of vessel duty not good. Brother is Angel vessel. Might very well eviscerate me in the future. FML.
Lucifer:
They really took this in completely the opposite direction that I was expecting. I was thinking smooth, seductive, irresistible Lucifer. I’m so glad I was wrong because this Lucifer is fantastic. Heartbreaking and empathetic with the barest hint of menace. The part of the episode that broke me completely was his sympathy for Sam. Just. So fucking brilliant, Show. I don’t have the words.
I have no prior viewer relationship with Mark Pellegrino, so all I can say is that he’s rocking the fuck out of Lucifer.
I kind of want to molest this entire storyline, TBQH. I am excited as all hell to see where they take it.
Dear Sam/Lucifer storyline,
Let’s hook up for sexytiems. Bring your delicious angstporn. I’ll be waiting.
Much love,
EJ
***
So, those are my thoughts for the moment, I think. I'm a little sleepy. Questions? Comments? Candy?
This week I was listening to Ben Nichols' Last Pale Light in the West
Let's talk Free to be You and Me!!
We’ll start with the issues because, tbqh, I have them so rarely with this show. I have faith in a way that I've had with no other show. In Kripke we trust, indeed. That being said:
The “Castiel Gets a Hooker!” storyline just didn’t jive. Not because Dean wouldn’t have taken him to a brothel. Dean would totally take him to a brothel. It’s the “Meep!” reaction that I have an issue with. Really, Show? You’re trying to convince me that “You’d better show me some respect!” Castiel is all, “OH NOES BOOBIEZ!!”? No. Do not collect $200, do not pass go.
It would have worked had the scene been played straighter (heh). Had Castiel been all *eyebrow raise* of “I will indulge you, Dean” and maintained his stoicism throughout while Dean is being smarmy, and then had Chastity have her fit etc. it would have worked just fine. As it was, it just hit all sorts of embarrassment squicks and did Castiel a huge disservice.
And, you know, I get it. I get that it was played for LOLZ and Dean/Castiel fanservice, and while I appreciate both of those things, this wasn’t a comedic episode. Even setting aside Sam’s storyline, Castiel had some really heavy shit laid down on him and the slapstick (including, imo, Castiel’s trying his hand at smack talk) simply didn’t fit with the rest of it.
So, I’m going to chalk that up to a bad call on Show’s (or, maybe Misha’s?) part and move on, because the rest of the episode was Made of Win!!
Castiel:
It ain’t easy for an angle trying to compete with the Winchester angst-off, but Castiel holds his own this episode, complete with a shiny set of daddy issues!! The interaction between Raphael and Castiel was amazingly done. Castiel has gone through a lot and he’s starting to realize just how tough this free will shit is.
The moment that completely sold it was when Raphael mentions Paradise . Castiel’s reaction to that was perfect, the expression of longing and what if? Because that’s what Castiel wants too and the only reason he diverted from the plan was because of Dean, and maybe that was a mistake? What if he had gone along with the original plan? If God is dead/gone/whatever, would they be further along in that goal if Castiel had stuck with Team Angels? Would it already be Paradise on Earth? Would Dean have been more malleable?
God was Castiel’s ace-in-the-hole and if he really is out of the picture, where does that leave him? He’s aligned with neither Heaven nor Hell. Dean is the only person he has to turn to at the moment and, quite frankly, Dean can barely help himself. More on that later.
missyjack made the comment: God is dead. Raphael - the angry lost child. And that’s a really good summation of him, actually. He played as neither good nor bad, but more an angry, incredibly powerful child. God is gone and the angels are, as much as anything else, hurt and lashing out. If they can’t have God, they want their Paradise and. I have no words for how awesome that spin is.WRT one more thing, I was talking to
kadiel_krieger about the issues we had and while the brothel thing bothered me, the FBI thing didn’t. While Castiel is perfectly capable of subterfuge, he doesn’t find it necessary when dealing with humans. It is wholly believable that he would want to waltz in and be like, “So, dude who saw the archangel, where is he?” Kind of like a really exaggerated version of White Guy Privilege. Why should he bother lying? He is an Angel of the Lord. People should listen to and believe him because of who and what he is. Dean has leeway on this because Dean is Important. Other humans, while important because they are God’s children, are still merely humans. Trying to trick them simply doesn’t fit into Castiel’s worldview.As far as Lucifer being the one to bring Castiel back, if that were the case, it still leaves the question of who transported Sam and Dean onto the plane. Because Lucifer would have kept them there, taken Sam's body and, I'm guessing, destroyed the shit out of Dean. (I assume he is not unaware of Dean's significance).
So, there’s that. I really enjoy Castiel’s continued explorations of the grey areas of the world and trying to figure out where he actually fits in it. ♥
Dean:
See Dean spend another week Not Dealing in a major way. The gas station scene in Lazarus Rising used to bother me for the fact that Dean is fresh out of hell and he picks up a skin mag. Really? But what we’re seeing now is exactly that played out to its logical extreme.
Dean doesn’t deal. It’s his freaking M.O. He didn’t deal with not dying in Faith, he didn’t deal with Dad dying, with Sam dying, with his impending stint in Hell, with being resurrected. So on and so forth. Dean is quippy Mr. Brightside and Do we really have to talk about it? Here, haz a cock rock!
And the only person to ever come close to making Dean deal, the one who constantly forces the issue(s) and doesn’t let it slide is, for the moment, quite effectively out of the picture. With Sam gone, Dean has his head buried in the sand so far it’s a wonder he can breathe.
I’ve seen more than a few reactions of people being upset that Dean is apparently unfazed by Castiel’s impending death. See: Dean Not Dealing. Here, shippers, haz a fanwank!
Dean is so busy trying to convince himself that everything is A-okay! The problem was Sam and Sam is gone and Dean is Happy and Cheerful and Awesome! Nevermind that the series started with Dean practically begging Sam to join him again. Nevermind that every other time Sam has tried to leave Dean has straight-up called him the world’s most selfish bastard. LALALA CAN’T HEAR YOU!
It’s the end of the world and Dean is… hunting like they always have? That’s his big plan? To just kill shit until evil overwhelms the world and it becomes Hell on Earth. From what we’ve seen, he’s not doing anything else and yet, when Castiel comes to him for help, Dean’s reaction is, “Meh.” Despite the fact that, short of giving it up for Michael, God is their best hope.
Dean? Is Not Dealing. He has taken so many shots of emotional Novocain that he’s at a point where nothing is really registering. Armor is up and in place with no pesky little brother to pick at it, so “I’mna go ahead and be eviscerated tomorrow” is met with, “Wouldn’t it be hilarious to try and get Cas laid?”
Dean: Man, I haven’t laughed like this in ages!
Me: You should check out LOLCats, Dean.
While they may not be exchanging BFF bracelets yet, Dean has shown concern for Castiel multiple times in the past, so his cavalier attitude about Castiel being exploded (again) by archangels is an indication of how really Not Okay he is.
I have to assume that Castiel knows this. Castiel, who knows that Dean thinks he didn’t deserve to be Saved and that Chastity’s daddy ran off. He has to know how Not Okay Dean is without Sam (who Dean was willing to take “as is” over Paradise in Lucifer Rising). I’m interested to see what he’s going to do with this knowledge.
Random thought: It occurs to me that we have not really seen Dean without Sam. I don't really have Thoughts on this at the moment, but I find it interesting.
Sam:
Let’s just go ahead and get the shallow stuff out of the way, in no particular order:
♥ Shirtless!Tattooed!Sam in bed
♥ Shirtless!Tattooed!Sam in bed, really sweet and intimate with Jess (Well, this is part shallow, part “my heart!” as it was both sexy and heartbreaking to see Sam with Jess like that.
♥ Barboy!Sam in a T-shirt
♥ Kung-fu action!Sam, kicking ass and taking names and managing to look all heartbreakingly angsty while doing so…
Okay, actually, I’ll just end the list there, as I could go on like that for awhile, but I do have real thoughts.
It’s interesting how, despite what Lucifer!Jess was saying, Sam is the one really dealing with his shit in this episode. With the options presently open to him, removing himself from the game is the best he can possibly do. Sam’s penance here is not for nothing.
It wasn’t the demon blood Sam was addicted to, but the power it gave him. Like all of the other Super Special Power-Having Kids, once he started it quickly spiraled out of control. Sam is smart enough to realize this, was frank with both Dean and himself at the end of Good God, Y’all about just how much he doesn’t trust himself.
This is different from Sam being afraid of what he might become in the earlier seasons. Sam is afraid because he knows what he might become. He has had a taste of real power and, despite the fact that his intentions were good, it went about as bad as things can go. You don’t get worse than Apocalypse bad. And Sam wants that power back.
So, you have that potential, you know the extent of what you can do. You know you could do more. There is nobody you can trust to keep you in check. You know that as well. All you have is your desire to not become that thing. What do you do with that?
Get a job in a bar because Sam is not an idiot. He is doing daily grind stuff, petty manual labor. He is washing dishes and slicing lemons and serving people. Absofuckinglutely!!! Sam's sin above all else was hubris, so the logical step away from Demonic World Domination is to humble himself as much as he can.
I get Bobby and the other hunters thinking he should join, but really, without any sort of check, without Dean, there’s no short slip for Sam. He slips again and he’s gone. He’s got the mojo and the power of Hell ready to back him up once he caves. We’ve seen Sam hunting without Dean and even the best case scenario of that is pretty dark.
So, yeah. Sam trying to save himself by working in a bar? Pretty fucking brilliant.
If that weren't reason enough to believe that Sam is doing the smart thing, Lucifer spends most of his time trying to convince Sam to get back in the game. Opposite of what Lucifer's wanting = prolly good idea.
So Lucifer ups the ante by being all, “BTW, no way out for you. Not even in death.”
Sam: Just found out I’m Lucifer’s meatsuit. Outlook on getting out of vessel duty not good. Brother is Angel vessel. Might very well eviscerate me in the future. FML.
Lucifer:
They really took this in completely the opposite direction that I was expecting. I was thinking smooth, seductive, irresistible Lucifer. I’m so glad I was wrong because this Lucifer is fantastic. Heartbreaking and empathetic with the barest hint of menace. The part of the episode that broke me completely was his sympathy for Sam. Just. So fucking brilliant, Show. I don’t have the words.
I have no prior viewer relationship with Mark Pellegrino, so all I can say is that he’s rocking the fuck out of Lucifer.
I kind of want to molest this entire storyline, TBQH. I am excited as all hell to see where they take it.
Dear Sam/Lucifer storyline,
Let’s hook up for sexytiems. Bring your delicious angstporn. I’ll be waiting.
Much love,
EJ
***
So, those are my thoughts for the moment, I think. I'm a little sleepy. Questions? Comments? Candy?
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
(no subject)
Date: 2009-09-25 11:24 pm (UTC)Alas, I read this as "Dean practically pegging Sam" and became both confused and excited. I thought, hrm:
1) LOLWUT DEAN HAS HIS OWN WEENOR AND WOULD NOT NEED A STRAP-ON and
2) OOH DEAN WEENOR
wtf self, seek help.
(no subject)
Date: 2009-09-25 11:39 pm (UTC)Candy please? Junior Mints over a scoop of vanilla ice cream.
(no subject)
Date: 2009-09-25 11:51 pm (UTC)To everything else you said though: WORD.
(no subject)
Date: 2009-09-26 09:18 pm (UTC)Which is the reoccurring theme in all of this, really. THIS IS RELEVANT AND SHOULD NOT BE OVERLOOKED.
You make me laugh, JSYK.
(no subject)
Date: 2009-09-26 09:22 pm (UTC)Ohh. This combination of dessertfoods is relevant to my interests. So long as it's vanilla bean ice cream.
(no subject)
Date: 2009-09-26 09:27 pm (UTC)To everything else you said though: WORD.
Thank you!!!