SPN 5x02 Meta: Smile like you mean it...

[errant_jane]

Some thoughts on 5x02
Note: Sorry. Was listening to the Killers again. Again? Still...

So, hey! Let's talk Good God, Y'all, shall we?

Bobby:

I like that Bobby is not as stiff-upper-lipped as he was last episode. That the truth of his injury is finally sinking in and it's affecting him. It has not hit Sam and Dean yet and I think the repercussions will be interesting when it does.

Castiel:

I’ll get the shallow out of the way straight off the bat. Let’s take a moment to appreciate how gloriously hot Castiel is stalking down the hospital corridor.

…

Okay, then!

I must say, I am a fan of the new Castiel. CHECK OUT THIS GQMF! HE’S AN ANGEL OF THE MOTHER FUCKIN’ LORD YOU BEST RECOGNIZE!! HE’LL ETCH SHIT INTO YOUR MOTHER FUCKIN’ RIBS TO HIDE YOU FROM ANGELS EVERYWHERE AND THEN TRACK YOU DOWN WITH YOUR GODDAMN CELLPHONE. SO STFU, SIT THE FUCK DOWN AND SHOW SOME GODDAMN RESPECT!!

Dean, it seems, has not noticed this shift. Well, he might have a clue now. I guess I’m fully outing myself as a non-shipper here, because this scene did not scream OTP to me. Castiel stopped just short of telling Dean to DIAF (which, all things considered, would be overly dickish of him).

Castiel did tell Dean he failed.

Own paragraph because it’s that important. Castiel straight-up called Apocalypse!Avoidance Fail. He used the word FAIL, the foundation upon which all of Dean's self-esteem issues are built. And then he says he did it for Dean- That he did it for nothing.

This signifies a shift in that this is not a Castiel who's going to Dr. Phil Dean through his issues. This is a Castiel who gambled and lost and he is not fucking around anymore. He was pissed when he got there and Dean calling bullshit on God was crossing A Line.

And their relationship was never smooth sailing to start with. I love it! I think it's compelling and their chemistry is hot like burning, but, no, I don’t think Castiel is writing "Castiel ♥ Dean" in his sparkly unicorn notebook anymore.

One other thing I've seen mentioned a few times is Castiel's role in getting things started: He let Sam out. But Castiel does not see it in that way. At that time, he was following orders. He broke with Heaven to help Dean. What he did before is not significant. Had it not been him, it would have been someone else. This is not even worth consideration from his perspective.

Side note: The x-ray was awesome, though I admit to being slightly disappointed that Castiel didn't actually write, "Castiel was here LOLZ!" That would have been awesome. Even more awesome? If he'd written it on Dean's tailbone.

Ellen:

I absolutely loved Ellen. So much. Full stop. There was nothing about her that wasn’t 100% fan-fucking-tastic. You only wish you were that BADASS!! (There was not enough Jo, TBQH, or she would get her own section. I hope this is not the last we see of them this season.)

War:

Huh! I love War. Dig the actor, dig the spin. The whole plot line overall was great. Well played, show.

Okay, now that that’s done, let’s talk about Sam and Dean, shall we?

The Sam and Dean Show

Just when I think they've hurt me all they can, they go and dial that bitch up another notch. Instead of the break I sort of expected after Sympathy for the Devil, they started this episode out limping along, desperately trying to make things work without actually trying to resolve anything.

A few things WRT Sam:

I think it's interesting that neither Bobby or Sam caught Castiel's "You both destroyed the world." Though, I wonder if they just chalk that up to Dean being unable to stop Sam and not any sort of larger role.

It also occurred to me that, as far as we've seen, Sam does not know that Dean didn't leave the message he heard in Lucifer Rising, which makes it that much more painful. He wavers between the earnest desire to make amends and the temptation to say "Fuck it!"

So Sam's "I'm leaving" speech was, while honest, a test of sorts. Did Dean really see him as a monster? And the answer he got was "yes". Dean didn’t put up a fight at all and that is unprecedented. From Sam's perspective, he is completely justified in believing that Dean no longer cares. How he reacts to that could be very very bad. Yeah, Bobby said that he wouldn't be kicking Sam to the curb. But Dean has always been the one person who didn't believe Sam was a monster, when even John issued the order that Dean might have to kill him. For Dean to turn aside now, after the voicemail on top of everything else, Sam has nothing to fall back on.

The last time Sam had nothing to fall back on, he hooked up with Ruby.

Which brings us to Dean:
This episode, in a way, was all about Dean going against every instinct he has.
First we have the amulet, which is something so fundamental to who Sam and Dean are to each other, and he had to take it off. Give it to someone else. And he did it with much less of a fight than he might have given at any other time.

Next, when Sam got captured, Dean’s first overwhelming instinct was to GO GET SAM OUT OF THERE. And he visibly stopped himself. Made himself go back and work out another plan.

This is significant because there have been at least a couple instances in the show where Dean has not run off to Sam's rescue because he knew in those cases that Sam could take care of himself. And while he believed that to be the case here as well, that wasn't why he didn’t go.

He didn't go because Dean is trying very hard to not let Sam be his weakness anymore. Because Sam is. He is Dean's big, flashing, neon sign of weakness. He always has been, and there isn't a sentient being in creation that is not fully aware of that. Dean fails at life and Sam is his weakness, ergo, eliminate the weakness.

Several times through the episode we see Dean stop, consider, and go against his "go to Sam" reflex. Most importantly at the end. It takes everything Dean has to let Sam walk away. To let him shoulder the blame and go.

Dean is very busy Not Thinking About It. He tried pretending like everything hadn't irrevocably changed and when that didn't work, he started lashing out, frantically throw up walls. What he is not doing is dealing. Because, as I said last week, dealing with Sam's sins means dealing with his own.

Letting Sam leave is a knee-jerk reaction, like chopping off his arm because he cut his finger. And sure, the cut fucking hurts and the shock of the lost limb seems like a good alternative at first. But really, Dean's just hopping around, spurting blood everywhere and saying, "'Tis merely a scratch! A flesh wound!"

If he doesn't bleed out, the phantom limb pain should start almost immediately.

Did I take that too far?

Right now, Dean's got everything precariously damned up. He's been plugging leaks since he got out of Hell. When reality really starts to sink in and that shit comes crashing down?

That's when the real pain begins.

In conclusion: Damn, Show! Why you gotta make it hurt so good?

Comments

[bionic.livejournal.com]

Mmm...this was very insightful and interesting and damn, but you are good!

Sam does not know that Dean didn't leave the message he heard in Lucifer Rising, which makes it that much more painful. He wavers between the earnest desire to make amends and the temptation to say "Fuck it!"

So Sam's "I'm leaving" speech was, while honest, a test of sorts. Did Dean really see him as a monster? And the answer he got was "yes"

Ow. Ow ow ow!! I completely forgot that the voicemail thing was never resolved. Wow.

Totally feeling even worse for the boys now =((((

[errant-jane.livejournal.com]

Mmm...this was very insightful and interesting and damn, but you are good!

Aw! Thank you!!

Totally feeling even worse for the boys now =((((

HA! Then my evil plan to make everyone feel AS HORRIBLE AS POSSIBLE has worked! ;D

For real, though, that has to be weighing on Sam's mind and the fact that Dean just lets him leave... Oh boys!!

[serialkarma.livejournal.com]

Own paragraph because it’s that important. Castiel straight-up called Apocalypse!Avoidance Fail. He used the word FAIL, the foundation upon which all of Dean's self-esteem issues are built. And then he says he did it for Dean- That he did it for nothing.

This signifies a shift in that this is not a Castiel who's going to Dr. Phil Dean through his issues. This is a Castiel who gambled and lost and he is not fucking around anymore. He was pissed when he got there and Dean calling bullshit on God was crossing A Line.

And their relationship was never smooth sailing to start with. I love it! I think it's compelling and their chemistry is hot like burning, but, no, I don’t think Castiel is writing "Castiel ♥ Dean" in his sparkly unicorn notebook anymore.

One other thing I've seen mentioned a few times is Castiel's role in getting things started: He let Sam out. But Castiel does not see it in that way. At that time, he was following orders. He broke with Heaven to help Dean. What he did before is not significant. Had it not been him, it would have been someone else. This is not even worth consideration from his perspective.

I have Thoughts about this and stuff related to this--I was noticing how in the two eps of this season so far there's a lot of blame and guilt being tossed around at everyone. Castiel calls Dean on failing to stop Sam (dear Castiel: maybe you should have sent Dean into the ROOM with Sam instead of at the end of the hallway, did you think of THAT?); Dean calls Sam out on *starting* the apocalypse and his failure to, among other things, listen to Dean about Ruby for a season and a half.

But thus far Sam is the only one who has openly admitted his responsibility in all of this. Dean still hasn't told anyone that he was the one who broke the first seal, and Castiel hasn't told anyone that he let Sam out. And I get what you're saying about Castiel not necessarily seeing that that action is along the same lines as what Sam and Dean did, but I'm not sure I agree with it--that he thinks that OR that he's justified in thinking that. You could argue that, orders or not, Castiel is at least as culpable as Sam or Dean in starting the apocalypse at this point, because he DID know, fully, what the consequence of letting Sam out of Bobby's panic room was likely to be. Whereas, with Dean, he had no idea, in Hell, that by breaking under Alistair and starting to torture people was breaking the first seal, and Sam honestly thought that killing Lilith was going to stop the Apocalypse because of Ruby's manipulations--his arrogance and desire for power notwithstanding.

Anyway, my point is that I think there's a lot of interesting stuff going on with guilt and personal responsibility among all three of these guys and we're just starting to see the very tip of the iceberg.

also, YMMV on everything I've said here because I didn't even have a chance to read all of your post and in a few hours I am heading out of town for a few days and will probably not even have a chance to get back to this for, like, a week, at which point I'll have forgotten every clever thing you, I, or anyone else has said. Argh.

[shirozora.livejournal.com]

And suddenly I feel masochistic. Kripke is putting the boys - and us - through the wringer and I love it. I mean, after I finally got over my D: face, that is.

And I agree: the way they're approaching the Four Horsemen is pretty awesome. And who doesn't love that cherry red Mustang?

[errant-jane.livejournal.com]

But thus far Sam is the only one who has openly admitted his responsibility in all of this.

THIS!! Yeah, Sam's sins are the most obvious, but he's fully owned up to them in a fantastic way. Oh, Sam!! ♥

Anyway, my point is that I think there's a lot of interesting stuff going on with guilt and personal responsibility among all three of these guys and we're just starting to see the very tip of the iceberg.

I agree with this, but hmmm. I'm still not sure I agree wrt Castiel. Thus far, we haven't seen any regret with him letting Sam out (or getting Anna captured). We still might, but I think that he truly doesn't view it like we would. Though, if someone called him out on it (as Dean did everything else in Lucifer Rising, he might. I will have to think on this more...)

I didn't even have a chance to read all of your post

Well, then clearly you've missed all of the TRULY BRILLIANT bits!!! *laughs*

Srsly, though, you make good points.

[nightswhisper.livejournal.com]

I'm not as shaken by the Sam/Dean split as I should be. Because 1) I trust Kripke. he's ALL about family. 2) It's the brothers. Eventually there will be a patchup 3) I honestly think at this point maybe a little space will do them good. I mean, it's not like either was kicking one to the curb. They both seemed to understand, were damn hurt by it mind you but did understand, that at this point in time they're bringing each other down. And now is NOT the time to be weak. I think eventually they'll figure out that they may be each other's weakness but they're also a strength. They both just need to get into their heads how fucked up they both are and move from there.

Nice note on Sam not knowing it wasn't Dean by the by. I had forgotten that.

I was SO happy when Cas called them BOTH out.

adored War as well...and ex-military guy. Now he needs some love. And a name...he didn't have a name did he?

Ellen...will always be awesome. always. Period. She was SUCH a highlight for me in this.

And, okay...now I'm gonna go back near the top of your post...and be completely shallow. I am slowly accepting the fact that I am a shipper...I mean...come on...who am I kidding? However, did I think that whole moment was all: ZOMG! OTP! ...uh. No. Cas was calling him out. And he needed it. So heck yea. If anything I think they're both on crazy uncomfortable grounds with each other at the moment. But they're both just as screwed up as everyone else right now... and I think this will lead to them finding some stability in each other. At least Cas' priorities (seem) to be somewhat straight in comparison to others.

The amulet being a god detector. NOw that was just win.

[errant-jane.livejournal.com]

Kripke is putting the boys - and us - through the wringer and I love it. I mean, after I finally got over my D: face, that is.

AHHAHAHA!! STORY OF MY LIFE WITH THIS SHOW!!! Seriously, I remember saying, once upon a time, that there is actually so much gen in this fandom because the genangst is so pornographic you don't need actualfax porn.

And I agree: the way they're approaching the Four Horsemen is pretty awesome. And who doesn't love that cherry red Mustang?

RIGHT? Way to go, Show, for not making it lame. As if that were even a chance!!

[errant-jane.livejournal.com]

3) I honestly think at this point maybe a little space will do them good.

IDK that I agree with this because, unless they (Dean esp.) start actually dealing with shit and not just treading water, the time apart is going to do fuck all at best, with the potential for a whole lot of damage. If Dean continues to repress, them separating is possibly the worst thing they could do.

They both just need to get into their heads how fucked up they both are and move from there.

Yes! I totally agree!

Nice note on Sam not knowing it wasn't Dean by the by. I had forgotten that.

Thank you!!

I was SO happy when Cas called them BOTH out.

Yeah, I could get used to BAMF!Castiel.

adored War as well...and ex-military guy. Now he needs some love. And a name...he didn't have a name did he?

I'm not sure. I'd have to rewatch. He was pretty awesome, though, huh?

Ellen...will always be awesome. always. Period. She was SUCH a highlight for me in this.

RIGHT? I can't even express her awesomeness with words!! I may have cackled a little when she slapped Dean. Because, really, who hasn't had that urge at least once? ;D

And, okay...now I'm gonna go back near the top of your post...and be completely shallow.

That's fair.

I am slowly accepting the fact that I am a shipper...I mean...come on...who am I kidding?

Ha! I had to accept the fact that I am emphatically not!! It came as a bit of a shock, TBQH!

However, did I think that whole moment was all: ZOMG! OTP! ...uh. No. Cas was calling him out. And he needed it.

Yeah, Dean was being a wee bit dickish there. DO NOT TALK SHIT ABOUT CASTIEL'S PAPA!!

and I think this will lead to them finding some stability in each other.

Hmmm. I think I will withhold forming an opinion on this quite yet. I am just not convinced...

The amulet being a god detector. Now that was just win.

This! I found it hilarious and a little achey at the same time. Show does a good job of that, akshually.

[nightswhisper.livejournal.com]

mmm... I mean, I DO agree that under the wrong terms apart is just gonna throw them both into a tailspin. But...I have faith in Kripke. I've said it before and I'll keep saying it because he's proven to be SO much more trust worthy then Mallozzi ever was. And they love their fans. They loe the characters. ANd Sam without Dean is like...like...apple pie without the vanilla ice cream! You can do it, but it's a damn shame.

*Snickers* Well I mean, really. You know this is something someone FUNDAMENTALLY believes in...and you're gonna crit it? common sense, Dean. Common sense.

On second thought...they could also very well end up tearing one another apart. (for some reason, I foresee Sam calling Dean out on this angel bussiness a little bit. Or least I hope so.)

Of course, part of this stems from me just really REALLY wanting to trust Cas... >.>

This show is amazing at breaking your heart and putting it back together. THat is WHY it is wesome. IT gives us angst and sugar.

[errant-jane.livejournal.com]

Oh, I have absolute faith that Kripke will fix it!! No doubt!! I just think that it's going to get worse yet before it gets better.

Of course, part of this stems from me just really REALLY wanting to trust Cas... >.>

Hmmm. I do think Castiel is trustworthy. I don't know that Dean trusts him to a great extent, but I think he trusts him as much as he trusts anyone.

This show is amazing at breaking your heart and putting it back together. THat is WHY it is wesome. IT gives us angst and sugar.

*laughs* Yes! It makes us cry and then it's all, "I'm sorry, baby, you know how I get. Have some candy..." OH SHOW!!! OURLOVEISSODYSFUNCTIONAL!!!

[nightswhisper.livejournal.com]

I swear, it's figured out its fan-girls are putty...and it's the most abusive, seductive, and devious husband ever.

[errant-jane.livejournal.com]

It really is!!! Our relationship is not healthy and yet, I cannot bring myself to care!!

[serialkarma.livejournal.com]

Well, then clearly you've missed all of the TRULY BRILLIANT bits!!! *laughs*

you're right! Because I missed this:

This episode, in a way, was all about Dean going against every instinct he has.
First we have the amulet, which is something so fundamental to who Sam and Dean are to each other, and he had to take it off. Give it to someone else. And he did it with much less of a fight than he might have given at any other time.

Next, when Sam got captured, Dean’s first overwhelming instinct was to GO GET SAM OUT OF THERE. And he visibly stopped himself. Made himself go back and work out another plan.

and you are V.V. SMART.

[missyjack.livejournal.com]

I wish to subscribe to your newsletter!

I like your point that Dean (and Sam) often put the job first when the other is in peril, but that this time Dean did it for a different reason.

I am not sure that Sam doesn't know about Dean's role in breaking the seals. I think he does. *shrugs*

I certainly do agree at Dean 'getting rid' of Sam as Sam represents his weakness. Definitely. Also that he is shit scared of the depth of his love for Sam, and how much that (and Sam) has the potential to hurt him.

[errant-jane.livejournal.com]

I like your point that Dean (and Sam) often put the job first when the other is in peril, but that this time Dean did it for a different reason.

Thank you!!

I am not sure that Sam doesn't know about Dean's role in breaking the seals. I think he does. *shrugs*

I am not sure either!! I guess I hope that he doesn't because I want to see it dealt with? Basically, I feel that the show is not quite angsty enough. Could you up the heartache a little, Kripke?

I certainly do agree at Dean 'getting rid' of Sam as Sam represents his weakness. Definitely.

\o/ And then they will come back together stronger than ever?

Also that he is shit scared of the depth of his love for Sam, and how much that (and Sam) has the potential to hurt him.

And this right here is why Show makes me so stupid giddy!! Just reading that makes me a little flappy because, yeah. I can't even make words for how much I love this about them.

I do think their "break" will help them figure shit out. I just think it might be in a horribly heart-breaking, gut-wrenching way. Did I say "think"? I may have meant "hope"...

[errant-jane.livejournal.com]

Hee!! Thank you!!!

[qwertypoiuq.livejournal.com]

I adoooore your thinky, eloquent brain - you've said it all so much better than I ever could. I wish everyone in fandom could GET IT as well as you, gah.

[kriari.livejournal.com]

*G* Well, I guess I've already made my thoughts known offline WRT most of this, and am starting to realize that we may, in fact, disagree more than we agree. Or perhaps you will agree with this, IDK. But this tidbit is new, I think, and I feel I have to address it, because I'm a big contrary nerd like that.

One other thing I've seen mentioned a few times is Castiel's role in getting things started: He let Sam out. But Castiel does not see it in that way. At that time, he was following orders. He broke with Heaven to help Dean. What he did before is not significant. Had it not been him, it would have been someone else. This is not even worth consideration from his perspective.

Maybe it's just me, but I don't think Castiel's self-absolution really means anything to anyone but him. He completely and concretely fucked up as much as either of the Winchesters whether he feels like he should make amends for it or not. Again, I realize you are clearly saying from his perspective. But, whether he believes he was following orders, whether or not heaven would have simply sent someone else, the fact of the matter is he absolutely did have a hand in beginning the apocalypse. If it ever comes to light that he of all people was the one who let Sam out (and I think it should, just as I think Dean should own up to his role) Dean is going to be pissed. Or resigned. It sort of depends where he is at that particular point. It's a compromise of Dean's burgeoning trust/respect that may well be irreparable considering how much he's already "lost". And I'm not certain that Dean will be able to so clearly compartmentalize that violation and chalk it up to, "Well, that was BEFORE he rebelled so it's okay." Especially since Dean is so clearly in locked-down self-destructo mode and almost never logical when it comes to Sam and Sam's well-being.

Now, I do think that if Dean tries to get all righteous fury on him about it without acknowledging that, yeah, he played a role as well (a role that Castiel is already aware of no less) I think that Newly!BAMF Cas will totes push back with a reminder. There will be lots of angry eyefucking and jaw clenching and potentially even wall-slammery then my meta brain devolves to a porny place.

Have I mentioned that BAMF!Cas makes me want to do cartwheels?

Oh, right.

So...IDK. Maybe I'm still too damn tired for thinky thoughts.

[errant-jane.livejournal.com]

*blushes* Thank you!!! What is it about this show that makes me want to compose ridiculously long essays? IDEK. I'm glad you enjoy it!!

[errant-jane.livejournal.com]

am starting to realize that we may, in fact, disagree more than we agree.

Shockingly, I was kind of already hip to that. *grins*

WRT Castiel's role, my point was more about the fact that I don't think he feels guilty about this because he's not coming at it from the same direction a person would. While Sam and Dean both have to come to terms with their roles, I don't think it something weighing on Castiel's mind. As far as he's concerned, his bigger sin is breaking from Heaven and the only thing he has to cling to right now is finding God. It is the only thing that will make what he did (helping Dean) okay. I just don't think letting Sam out even makes the list of Castiel's sins (in his mind, of course).

How Dean would react to that, IDK. Like you said, there are a lot of factors that would influence that, depending on if and when it comes out.

Have I mentioned that BAMF!Cas makes me want to do cartwheels?

Hmmm. That sounds vaguely familiar...

[kriari.livejournal.com]

And then sometimes we engage in brain-twinnery?

See:

As much as we all (or maybe just I) sometimes like to believe Castiel is just a boy who happens to have wings, he is an angel and works from a completely different framework.

His only hope of absolution, a desperate one at that, is to find God. If he can repair the world, perhaps he can beg forgiveness. It's probably the shipper in me that says he's doing it for Dean as much as himself.

[percysowner.livejournal.com]

This episode, in a way, was all about Dean going against every instinct he has.

Wow, this statement just twigged something to me. In Death Take a Holiday, we get a statement from the only supernatural entity that I believe is truly neutral on the whole Apocalypse thing, Tessa. She tells Dean to trust his instincts. Now Dean is finally repressing his instincts when it comes to Sam. This may be the wrong thing to do. I just didn't catch it until your post. I wonder where this will lead, or if I'm seeing something that isn't there.

[ethrosdemon.livejournal.com]

You know what I'm thinking about wrt Sam now: who's to say that he wasn't actually IN LOVE with Ruby? I mean, it's not out of the realm. So now Dean's kicked him out and another girl he loves is dead, plus she was playing his ass all along and he should have known better...dude's gotta be way fucked up.

If I was a demon, I think I would use this opportunity wisely, I'm just sayin'.

It actually is all the Sam fangirls' nightmare: Dean is actively replacing Sam with Castiel. But it had to happen, so they can stfu.

[errant-jane.livejournal.com]

She tells Dean to trust his instincts. Now Dean is finally repressing his instincts when it comes to Sam. This may be the wrong thing to do.

Oooh! That's an interesting point!! I like it.

[errant-jane.livejournal.com]

who's to say that he wasn't actually IN LOVE with Ruby?

Me. Next?

So now Dean's kicked him out and another girl he loves is dead, plus she was playing his ass all along and he should have known better...dude's gotta be way fucked up.

Yeah, Sam has a basis for some issues, definitely.

If I was a demon, I think I would use this opportunity wisely, I'm just sayin'.

ITA. Which is why I think that them splitting up was a bad, bad idea and not at all based on logic.

It actually is all the Sam fangirls' nightmare: Dean is actively replacing Sam with Castiel. But it had to happen, so they can stfu.

Well, the thing is, there's a difference between him substituting Castiel for Sam and replacing him. Castiel might factor into Dean's dysfunctional processing for awhile, but he's not ever going to replace Sam. It's a silly thing to be upset over.

[ethrosdemon.livejournal.com]

Ok, Sam was completely head over heels for Ruby in my fic, check.

[errant-jane.livejournal.com]

Oh, Pants!! Okay, srs face. I don't know that I would go so far as in love. I think that he was way too out of it over Dean's death to have actual true love feelings for her. I do think he cared for her and trusted her to an insane extent.

But, really, all things considered, did Sam ever stand a chance against her? She came in at the right times and did all the right things. I honestly think the amount of responsibility he's accepting for everything shows how fucking awesome he is.

[ethrosdemon.livejournal.com]

This is where I'm coming from with this: have we seen Sam have any level of investment in anyone he didn't love? I don't think he was conscious of it, but I think he did love her in that desperate, troubling, disastrous Winchester way.

Where I am going with this is Sam post Dean break up moping in a hotel room hating on himself for all his mistakes. It's a happy fic!